Q & A

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Well, I'm excited about the opportunity to do this. I was looking back, it's been over, I think, close to a year and a half since we had our last Q & A. I enjoy these. It's always fun to see where the questions go. And if you have a question, and unless it's like a very specific question about the tenth toe on the beast or something, likely somebody else has that question as well, and so don't hesitate to ask it. Now, anybody can ask a question, but here's how it works. There are three mics. One over here in this aisle, the center aisle and here. And there's a tendency for Texans to be overly polite. And you may say, "Well, look, there's a person standing at the mic, so I'm just going to stay seated." But here's how my mind works. I'm answering one question, and I look, and I see the other mics are empty, and there's nobody else standing up. And I think, oh, I can spend 30 minutes on this answer. So that doesn't help me. So I need to kind of know the volume of questions.

So just a minute. If you have a question sort of get up, and it's okay if there's a little line that forms, that's fine. That helps me know kind of how many questions I want to get through, and I'll keep my answers a little shorter. Or if Randy's the only one with a question, then I can talk about this for the next 45 minutes. I don't know what it is. Anyway, that's how it works. So please don't be polite and just sort of sit back. If you have a question, go ahead here in the next minute or two and get in line so I know what's coming. Alright?

Any question that you have, I'll do my best to answer. If I can't -- and again, this isn't stump the Pastor night; I promise you, you can do that -- but if I can't answer it, I'll certainly commit to get you an answer if I can't, on the spot. All right, so let's start over here. The first rule is you have to announce your name, so if people don't know you, they know who you are and then jump into your question. All right.

[Randy Rhodes] Tom --

[Tom] Wait a minute. You broke the first rule.

[Randy] My name is Randy Rhodes, and the whole context of this is the role of fasting. Obviously, Jesus fasted in a time of, let's say, human deprivation of food. He was spiritually strong, then tempted. But the question is, how do we fast today? Or did that end? And then kind of anecdotally, I heard a pastor many years ago. At the time, I thought it was a pretty good statement. He said, "It doesn't matter what you believe about fasting. The first sin manifested in the appetite." And I have never really forgotten that. And so I've just pondered that and then certainly want to know what you have to say? And what does Scripture say?

[Tom] Yeah, no, it's a great question. It's one that I think we ought to struggle with because clearly it is a practice that is in Scripture. And in fact, the passage that jumps into my mind is out of the Sermon on the Mount, where Jesus says in Matthew 6, in fact, turn there, Matthew 6, verse 16, He says, "Whenever you fast..." He's talking to His disciples, and He assumes that that time will come in our lives. But He then says don't do it like the Pharisees: When you fast, "do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do." In other words, they want to be seen. They neglect their appearance, so they'll be noticed by men when they're fasting. We all have a tendency to want to parade our spirituality to do what we do, whether it's pray to be seen or fast to be seen or otherwise in this passage give to be seen. We're very tempted to do that. And so our Lord is saying don't do that. Notice verse 16, they want to be noticed by men when they're fasting:

Truly, I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face so that your fasting will not be noticed by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.

And so there is an expectation that there will be times of fasting. Now, that taken into perspective, there are only two fasts that we have that were long fast in Scripture. There isn't like a regular pattern of long periods of time going without food. There are only a couple of examples. When you look at fasting, by and large in Scripture, what you'll discover is that it's for a relatively short period of time, for a day, or for the period of a day. In fact, that was the more common period of a fast. So the first thing you note, and I'm going to recommend that you listen to the messages I did again on Matthew 6, the passage I just read, because I dealt with fasting at length there, and I won't be able to do that here. But the other thing you'll notice about fasting, not only that it was not for that 40-day sort of time frame, it was a short period of time. But secondly, it was always connected with a life event that demanded it. In fact, what did our Lord say? He said you don't fast when the bridegroom is here and the party's going on. You fast when that isn't true. Even He hinted at the fact that fasting is tied to life events.

The Pharisees they, remember, fasted twice a week. Jesus tells us that little parable in Luke that says here you have this Pharisee boasting to God about how often he fasted. It was a set time, and it was considered by the Pharisees to be a kind of brownie-points earning with God. It was a mechanism to earn the favor of God. That's a misunderstanding of fasting.

When I was young in Christ, I read these passages, and I remember as a young seminary student, I was working all day doing something, I forget now, physical labor. And I decided that day I was going to fast. And my point was, I really had this -- I didn't think it through this clearly, but in retrospect, looking back -- I think my mindset was that somehow I'm going to earn God's favor, that this is going to impress Him. That's not what fasting is about.

Fasting is always connected with two things: With circumstances in the life that call for extended prayer. In other words, circumstances that are difficult, that are dire, a difficult trial, some major issue in life you track fasting through. You'll find that and secondly, you'll find that it's always connected with prayer. Fasting is not some sort of meritorious "I'm not going to eat and God's going to be impressed." Fasting is "I am so carried out of myself by this circumstance that I don't want to eat. I want to spend that time instead in prayer. I want to ask God to intervene in this situation." And so you got to get that sort of maybe you don't have this, but I did. You have to get that sort of meritorious idea out of your mind. Fasting is not earning something with God: "If I fast, God's going to be more likely to hear me." No, fasting is simply a normal reflection of grief and of spending that time to pour oneself out to God in prayer because of what you're going through.

You'll find that that is a common thread through Scripture. And again, it is not that sort of seven-day, ten-day, 40-day fast. And it's certainly not, as some of the seeker-sensitive churches have done in recent years, for your weight. Okay? Fasting has nothing to do with that. Fasting is a time set aside to seek the face of God because of something in your life that demands it. That's fasting. And again, that's a brief answer, but go back and listen. I think I did, I don't know if it was one message or two, on this passage when I went through the Sermon on the Mount, but I go through all those passages and sort of expand on that a little more. But that's the short answer. Okay?

But in terms of back to the other, the second part of your question, that it's somehow that the appetites are always a challenge and that fasting somehow restrains those and restricts those. Personally, that is true, okay? There can be some self-discipline by not eating that thing you want to eat, but that's not the purpose of biblical fasting. I think the two are unrelated. If you want to teach yourself some self-discipline, self-control by not going to Krispy Kreme or whatever, then great, do that. But that's not biblical fasting. Biblical fasting is "You are so overwrought with the circumstances in your life, be they spiritual or be they trial, that you don't want to eat and instead you want to pour that time into being before the face of God." Okay, who's next? Go ahead.

[Christine Cooper] My name is Christine Cooper, and I know you'll get to this one day, but I have a question about Romans 11.

[Tom] Okay, you said that with such sweetness instead of cynicism. All right, Romans 11.

[Christine] In verses 25 and 26, there is a phrase that says that "a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in; and so all Israel will be saved." And my question is twofold: A, does that passage correlate with Jeremiah 31 where it's talking about "Behold, days are coming when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel"? And in verse 34, it says "No one will have to say know the Lord because they will all know me."

And then my second question is in Romans 11, when it says, "All Israel will be saved," does that mean literally every single Jewish person will be saved at the end? Or is that more of all who will be saved out of Israel?

[Tom] Stay there, because you may have to remind me. All right, let's take your second question first, "All Israel will be saved." Who are we talking about? Clearly, we've already seen early in Romans that just because you're an ethnic descendant of Abraham does not mean that you are safe or saved. In fact, as we'll see in chapter 9 of Romans, not all ethnic descendants of Abraham were elect. Let me give you the sort of argument of what goes on in Romans, because it's been a while since we introduced the book. So let me just give you a reminder of the argument.

Paul, of course, introduces the gospel, we're about to get to that. He goes through what the gospel is. He explains the gospel and justification by faith through chapter 4. You come to chapter 5 and through chapter 8, and you have the sort of benefits of our salvation, the security that's ours in Christ, our new relationship to the law, our union with Christ, our death to the old life, our absolute rock-solid safety in the love of Christ as he ends chapter 8. That's what we're going to see in chapters 5 through 8. It's the benefits of our justification, the immediate benefits in chapter 5, verses 1 through 11, and then the rest of that section through chapter 8, the sort of other larger benefits of our justification.

Now, having explained justification, having explained the benefits of our justification, he comes to chapters 9 through 11. And chapters 9 through 11 are a defense of the gospel. He anticipates how the Jews might respond. He's just said if you're a Christian, you were chosen, you were justified, you will be sanctified and you will be glorified. It's like an unbreakable chain that's going to happen to you. You're secure and you can just see an unbelieving Jewish person in the back going "Wait a minute, you just said that God's covenant with us didn't stick, so how do I know?" That's going to be how they're going to respond. And so Paul anticipates that. And in chapters 9 through 11, he says no, God didn't do away with his covenant promises to Israel. He never promised to elect or save all the physical descendants of Abraham. That was never his plan. And he uses several examples there in chapter 9.

In fact, just glance at chapter 9. He uses the example. First of all, look at verse 6: "But it is not as though the word of God has failed." He said look, don't misunderstand; the fact that God didn't save all Jewish people doesn't mean that His promise isn't secure. He said that was never God's point. Verse 6: "For they are not all Israel -- " true Israel, " -- who are descended" physically "from Israel, nor are they all children" because they're Abraham's descendants. In other words, it was never God's plan to save every ethnic descendant of Abraham. And he gives some examples.

First example, he says, "Isaac." Not who? Not Ishmael. You say, "Well, yeah, but come on, I mean, Ishmael was the son of Abraham and Hagar, so that's different." He says, "Okay, let me give you another example. What about the twins?" Verse 8: "That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise." Again, he's making that distinction. He's saying not all ethnic descendants of Abraham did God choose to save.

So let me give you another example. He says, verse 9: "For this is the word of promise: At this time I will come, and Sarah shall have a son." Not only this, here's another one, but Rebecca, who conceived twins by one man, our father, Isaac. Now, you got two boys born of the same father, same mother, they're twins. And he says verse 11:

For though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, it was said...the older will serve the younger...Jacob, I loved...Esau, I hated.

What's he saying? He's saying God chose Jacob and not Esau. Now, Esau is still responsible for his sin. This isn't like a get out of jail free card because God did something to Esau. Esau made his choice, but it was God's choice as well.

And so he's wanting us to know this was never God's plan. So chapters 9 through 11 are making that point but he comes back in chapter 11 to say, "Okay, in spite of all I just told you about, it was never God's plan to save all of them. He still got a plan and He is going to save a bunch of them." And that's where we come to chapter 11. And he makes the point and the verse that you cited there in verse 25 of chapter 11, he's saying, "This is God's plan. God did all of this because he wanted to save Gentiles." But verse 26: "All Israel will be saved." What does that mean to your question? It doesn't mean that God will go back through time and save every Jewish person, every ethnic descendant of Abraham. He's already told us in chapters 9 and 10 that wasn't His plan. He's now looking forward. He's looking to the future, He's looking to the end, and He sees that at the end, there is going to be a massive ingathering of Jewish people.

This is Zechariah. Zechariah says, "They will look on Him Whom they pierced and they will mourn for Him as an only Son, and a fountain of cleansing will be open for them." It gives expression to Isaiah 53. Our hearts resonate with Isaiah 53. But as I think John pointed out when he preached here, Isaiah 53 is really the words of Israelites who are part of this, all will be saved. Looking at the Redeemer and saying those words and coming to true faith in the end, okay, the end of the Tribulation period and in that period of time. And so that's what's going on here. He's saying, "But God hasn't given up on the ethnic descendants of Abraham."

At the very end, there will be a massive ingathering. Now, all Israel, does that mean every Jewish person alive at the time of the return of Christ, the Second Coming? It certainly appears to be most of them, if not all of them. It obviously means a massive number of them. Okay? There's a lot of debate. Does "all" mean "all" and etc., and we can't be absolutely sure, but His point clearly is that there will be a massive number. Most, I think it's fair to say, of the Israelites living at the time of the Second Coming will look on Him Whom they pierced. They survived the Tribulation, they come through it, they see Him setting foot on the Mount of Olives, and they will mourn for Him as an only Son, and a fountain of cleansing will be open. Okay?

Now, does that apply, your first question, does that apply to Jeremiah's prophecy of the New Covenant? Yes and no, because you have to understand that we are part of the New Covenant. Remember, Paul said in Corinthians that "He was a minister of the New Covenant." Hebrews makes it clear that we enjoy the promises of the New Covenant. Those promises made in Jeremiah at the same time that New Covenant promise also does look forward for its ultimate and final fulfillment to the end that you're talking about. Okay? Does that answer your question?

[Christine] Yes.

[Tom] All right, great.

[Clay Bass] So I was wondering, it's easy as a conservative Republican to have views on this issue, but I wanted to hear, from a biblical perspective, two different things. One would be self-defense and the other would be like defending your family as a father.

[Tom] Okay, let's take both of those. First of all, the principle of self-defense is -- did you announce your name, Clay?

[Clay] My name is Clay Bass.

[Tom] All right, there we go. I knew that, but I just want to make sure they knew that. So, Clay, here's the deal. When it comes to self-defense, the Scripture is very clear. If you go back to the law and my mind is skipping on the exact reference, I'll have to get that to you. But it's in Exodus I believe, in the expression of the law there in Exodus after the Ten Commandments in Chapter 20, where the principle of self-defense is laid down that you can, in the defense of your own life, take another life.

And so the biblical principle is clear that that is acceptable with God. And there was a whole system set up to protect people who took a life for different reasons. One of them would be involuntary manslaughter. There was a city of refuge where you could flee to if someone was seeking justice to take your life. You could flee there and your case was heard and you could be protected. But when it came specifically to self-defense, a person was allowed in the defense of their own life to take another life. So that is absolutely acceptable.

This really goes back to the Ten Commandments, doesn't it? Because remember, the Ten Commandments are a grid, an outline, if you will, of God's law. They cover different areas of God's law, of what God expects of us. And one of those areas has to do with life. You shall not murder. What's the principle there? The basic principle in the 10th Commandment, or in that commandment rather, is that you shall not only not take the life of another or your own life by the way. That command forbids suicide because we're not the master of life. God says in Deuteronomy 32 that "I kill, I make a life." That's God's prerogative, not mine. So I don't have, as a human being, the right to take my own life or to take the life of another. Moreover, the positive side of that -- and I'm getting further away from your question here but I think this is important -- the Ten Commandments are brilliant. You would expect them to be, right, inspired by the Spirit of God. But think about it. Two of the Ten Commandments are positive and eight of them are negative. What does that tell us? It tells us that all of them both forbid the negative and demand the positive. And so when it comes to the command about murder, it's not merely a prohibition against murder. It means that I need to do everything I can reasonably to preserve both my own life and the life of others. So that's why, for example, if you were in ancient Israel and you had a flat roof, you had to put a fence around your roof so nobody fell off. Why? Because God expects me to do everything I can reasonably to preserve my own life and the life of others, not to take unnecessary risk for myself or others.

I'm rebuked about this every time I tailgate. Sometimes it's the Spirit, and sometimes it's my wife. But it's true. We have this responsibility. We have a responsibility to preserve and protect. However, that said, that's the biblical principle. But what overrides that principle is the principle of self-defense: That I can in the defense of my own life or safety or the safety and protection of an innocent person. Whether it's my child or whether it's my wife or whether it's some other innocent person. I'm in a store and I happen to be armed and somebody's doing something and they're going to hurt, they're going to take another life. I have the biblical right to defend that person's life by taking a life if it requires that. I don't do that carelessly, frivolously. I don't take some sort of macho pride in that. I only realize that if it ever comes to that and I pray it doesn't, that I have the biblical right to take that life to protect my own or the life of another innocent person. Biblically, that's clear. And again, I'll have to look up the reference and get it to you. See me afterwards, and maybe I can find it. Okay. Does that answer your question?

[Clay] Yes, sir.

[Tom] Okay, great. Go ahead, Steve.

[Steve Leak] I'm Steve Leak. I have a question on Ephesians 3:17.

[Tom] I love Ephesians. Let's go there. Yes, sir. Ephesians 3:17.

[Steve] So Paul writes, "So that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith" and he's clearly writing to Christians. And if Christians are indwelled by the Holy Spirit at regeneration, why does he put it that way, and what does it mean?

[Tom] Yeah. Again, as you know, because you do a lot of transcription, you know I taught a lot of messages in Ephesians, and I'm going to give you a really brief answer of something that deserves a lot more. So if you want to sort of delve into it a little more, go and look at the transcript or read or listen to the message on Ephesians. But let me give you the short answer in the context here.

Well, first of all, notice this isn't a prayer. Let's set the context. Paul is praying for the Ephesians back in verse 14: "For this reason, I bow my knees before the Father, from Whom every family in heaven on earth derives its name, that He would grant you according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit and the inner man." So his first prayer for the Ephesians in this passage is that they would enjoy a spiritual strength to stand firm in their faith, to grow strong in their faith. His second request is related because notice it begins "So that." So this is the purpose for which he wants you to be strengthened in the inner man, because he wants that Christ may dwell in our hearts through faith.

Now, the word “dwell” is an interesting word. It's a word which means to be at home. So it's not that Christ in His Spirit doesn't already dwell in me. It's interesting. The Holy Spirit is sometimes called the Holy Spirit. He's sometimes referred to as the "Spirit of Christ Who was within them," Peter says. And so we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit in a unique and special sense. But God the Father is omnipresent. He is with us in that sense. The abiding presence of the Father is with us, and the abiding presence of the Son is with us. What did he say? He said, "I will be with you always, even to the end of the age, lo, I am with you always." So we sometimes put things in little too neat a category, as though the Spirit is the only member of the Trinity who has any unique, abiding presence with us. And obviously there is a special ministry of the Spirit in that regard, but it's not solely His responsibility. It's also that of the Father and of Christ, because They too are omnipresent, They too dwell in a special way with Their people. And so what he's saying here is, I want Christ to be at home in your heart. I want you to be strengthened spiritually to a point where your communion, your enjoyment of the person of Christ in your daily life will be real. Not in a mystical way, not in a "I feel Christ," that's destructive of our spiritual life, but rather faith through faith.

I simply believe that it's true. This is how we have to respond. This is faith. It's not mysticism. It's not "I feel the presence of God." I don't feel the presence of God, especially when I get up early to have my own time in the Word and prayer.

I don't feel God's presence. I believe that He's present because He said He would be. And He's never lied to me. He's never lied to you either. He doesn't lie. And so He would be at home in our hearts through faith. That is, we would comprehend through our faith that this is true, that we have a unique relationship with Him, that He is with us, and that He's at home with us in an abiding sort of way. Does that make sense?

[Steve] Yes. Thank you.

[Tom] So it's not mystical. It is a reality that the members of the Trinity dwell in an abiding way with me and in me, and I simply have to believe that's true and live as though that's true. You know, the Reformers used to talk about that we live "coram deo," a Latin expression that means we live before the face of God. That is true. The question is, do I believe that's true? It's by faith that I come to understand that Christ promised He would always be with me. So wherever I am, whatever I'm doing through all of my life, He's with me. The Spirit is always indwelling me and with me, His abiding presence is always with me. And the same thing with the Father. I'm never alone. I love what Jesus said in the upper room discourse before His betrayal. He said, "All of you people are going to leave me," He says, "but I will not be alone because the Father will never leave Me." That's where we are, and that's how we have to think. Everybody in my life, I hope it never happens, but it certainly can happen in this life: Everyone may desert me, but our God never will. Our triune God will always be with me and with you as a believer.

[Steve] Thank you.

[Spencer Dermberger] This is really small. Spencer Dermberger. I'm a bit of a philosopher, so I digress a little bit from where I'm going. First, 1 John 4:18. I'm comparing that passage to the passage you've been in for a while, Romans 3:9-18, particularly 18, where he talks about the reason we sin is primarily because we don't have a fear of God.

[Tom] Right.

[Spencer] [1 John] 4:18 says, "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and in the one who fears is not perfect in love."

[Tom] Yeah, exactly. So you're saying what is the relationship between a commanded fear of God, that we are commanded to fear Him, and this statement that says where there is a perfect understanding of the love that God has for us, then we wouldn't have fear. Is that what I'm --

[Spencer] Exactly.

[Tom] Okay. All right, let's back up and remind ourselves that one basic principle of interpretation -- and this isn't just true of the Bible, this is true of anything you read that's written by a single author -- is that you try to explain the unclear by the clear. So you have to look at this statement in the context of the rest of what the Bible says about fear. Alright?

What you find is that we are commanded to fear God. "Fear God and keep His commandments," Solomon says at the end of Ecclesiastes, "for this is the whole duty of man." Okay? So the essence of having a right relationship with God is fearing Him. And the reason sinners do what they do, Romans 3, is because they don't fear Him. And yet here it says that there is no fear in love. So what we have to do is explain this one verse in reference to the rest of Scripture. This is called the analogy of faith.

It's a principle of interpretation. The Reformers used to talk about "Scripture interprets Scripture," and when they said that they were using Scripture in two different ways, two different senses. The first sense is Scripture as a whole interprets Scripture as in this particular passage. That makes sense?

So a basic principle of hermeneutics is you take the entirety of what the Scripture teaches about fearing God, and you use that to interpret this because it's from one mind. This book was written by the Holy Spirit, ultimately, and so He's not contradicting Himself. So my job as an interpreter, then, is to understand how this passage relates to that larger perspective.

And here is a simple explanation of it. We are commanded to fear God in the sense that we are commanded to worship Him. We are commanded to fear offending Him and sinning against Him and His holiness, just as we feared our own parents. You remember Peter makes this point. We feared those earthly fathers who disciplined us. We ought to live, therefore, in the fear of God, because He also is a Father who will discipline us. And so, just like I feared my father. I loved my father. I knew he loved me. I had a good relationship with my father, but I feared him in the sense that I did what he told me to do, and I feared disobeying him and the fruit of that, what would happen in my life if I did. And so it's the same with God.

Before we are saved, let's go there, before we're saved, we fear Him in a sinful way. We fear Him because we impute the worst motives to Him. He doesn't love us. He doesn't care about us. He doesn't want me to have what I really would benefit from. And we fear Him like Adam and Eve running away from him. Okay? That's sinful fear. After conversion, we don't fear Him in that sense because we come to know Him as a Father. We come to know Him as One who loves us, and we love Him. So now we fear Him in the way a loving child fears his parent. He fears to disobey. He fears to offend. He doesn't want to disappoint. There's that kind of fear. There's still an awe and a respect of God that's part of that, a sense of "He's God and I'm not." That's part of the fear.

Every time somebody encounters God in the Scripture, what do they do? They fall on the face like they're dead. That's a right response. It's then God's response to say, "Stop fearing." But it's not my response to say, "I shouldn't respond that way." I ought to respond that way, because He's God and I'm not. He is the Maker of all things and in His own category, and I'm simply a creature who depends on Him for everything, and He could in a moment wipe me away. And what does Jesus say? "Don't fear those who are able to destroy the body but fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell." And so there is a right kind of fear, even for us. It's not that kind of fear that drives us away from God like Adam and Eve. Instead, it's the kind of fear that makes us stand in awe and it attracts us to Him. That's the difference.

And that's what I think John is saying here. When we come to understand the love that God has for us and we love Him in response, there isn't that kind of fear, that fears punishment. There's the right kind of fear, the kind that Scripture enjoins us to. So you have to keep in mind that not every time the word fear and fear of God is used is it speaking of exactly the same thing. Okay? So there are these different kinds, different spheres of fear, and you have to understand in context what's being described. Okay?

[Spencer] Thank you.

[Tom] Yes, sweetheart?

[Sophia Mead] My name is Sophia Mead. And what is God's purpose in using specific numbers in Scripture? For example, 153 fish caught by the seven disciples in John 21:11.

[Tom] That's a great question because a lot of people think there's more to numbers than there are. There's a whole sort of theory that all the numbers in Scripture mean something. It's interesting you should ask that question because I was just meditating and reading on John 21, which is where that story is just this week, and it is a fascinating story. It's when Jesus comes to His disciples after the Resurrection and they're fishing. And in fact, those of you who have your bibles, you can turn there.

In John 21, in verse 9. Well, go back to verse 3. Simon Peter said to the other disciples that were there in Galilee, "I am going fishing." They said, "We'll come also." They went out, got into the boat, and that night they caught nothing. By the way, they fished at night because it was much easier to take your catch to the market fresh. You don't have to keep them all day or all night. You caught them at night, you took them to the market the next morning and people bought them because they didn't have refrigerators and all that we have. So it was a lot easier. So that's why they went fishing at night. And then you have, Jesus shows up and you remember he tells them "You haven't caught anything." They say, "No, we haven't." He said, "Throw your net on the other side." And when they throw the net on the other side of the boat, they catch so many fish it almost breaks the net. And they drag it to land. And it says, verse 11: "Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three." And although there were so many, the net was not torn.

Now, when people see numbers like that, they think, "Why does it mention 153? Is there like a spiritual, symbolic something or other?" No, there were 153 fish. And that's a great question, though, because it isn't something we should do. We should interpret the Bible just like we do other writings, like the newspaper. If you saw the number 153 in the newspaper, would you think that has some sort of spiritual significance? No. You'd say that's how many fish there were.

That's why it's here. It shows how historically true it is. It means somebody was there with those fishermen and counted. John was there. He counted how many fish. Why do they do that? Because if you were a fisherman, you wanted to know how many fish you had to sell, and so they always counted how many fish they caught. And in this case, it was a huge catch. What it does in this case, the reason it's mentioned here, is it shows us what an amazing miracle this was: That they caught nothing all night...Jesus says, "Throw your net on the other side of the boat," and they caught 153 large fish. And so it just shows how powerful Jesus is, how great He is. But the number itself means nothing. Now, that doesn't mean that there aren't some times in Scripture when a number might have some meaning or significance, but we shouldn't always be looking for that. There should be some reason in the context of that number that leads us to think that means something, that Scripture is hinting that

that number means something, okay? Not where there's just a number. Does that answer your question?

[Sophia] Mmhmm.

[Tom] All right. Thank you, Sophia.

[Renee] Pastor, my name is Renee Bourgeois, and I just wanted to know, what does the Word of God say about tattooing? And in light of our culture these days, what should be our response as believers, as moms to that?

[Tom] Yeah, no, that's a good question. I think, first of all, we have to back up and look at, and you understand this, but I just want to set the context for us. Whenever there is a moral decision, we're not talking now about what color socks you wear or what color your house is. We're talking about a moral decision. Any moral decision you will be faced with falls into one of three categories. Either it's "Thus saith the Lord, thou shalt...," chapter and verse, or "Thus saith the Lord, thou shalt not...," chapter and verse. Now, I'm not talking about there's a principle of a principle of a principle. I mean, it's there, clear, this is what it says. This is what it means. The third category is if the Bible doesn't say "thou shalt" or "thou shalt not" in clear terms, then it becomes an issue of conscience.

Now, that doesn't mean just because it's an issue of conscience that I can do it. That's why there are four chapters in the Bible, really close to five chapters in the New Testament devoted to deciding whether or not I should do something that Scripture doesn't expressly forbid. That's Romans 14 and part of 15 and 1 Corinthians 8 to 10. Read those chapters. In fact, on this issue of Christian liberty or Christian conscience, if you were raised in legalism, or if you weren't, if you were raised sort of in the other side of it, go listen to the series I did. Believe it or not, I preached four messages on Romans 14, got through the whole thing, and a good part of 1 Corinthians 8 to 10 and developed: "So how do we make those decisions?" We don't just get to decide, "Oh, good, it's an issue of Christian liberty, I'll do it." No, there are a lot of factors that factor into that decision.

Will it control me? Will it thwart my spiritual growth and development? Will it affect the spiritual health of someone else? Will it affect my testimony for the gospel? There are a lot of factors that have to come into making that decision. So that's the big picture. Now, let's talk specifically about your question, tattooing.

There is, as you know, a reference in the Old Testament law that talks about marking oneself, cutting or marking oneself. And that's a passage that, when I was growing up, was often used to say that tattoos were wrong for Christians to have. If you look at that passage in its context, you'll discover that, and you look at a good study Bible or two, you will discover that it's about idolatry. Those were things that people did in the worship of false gods. So it is not in and of itself a crystal clear prohibition of tattooing. What that means is that now I fall back on those principles that are laid out in Romans 14 and 15 and 1 Corinthians 8 to 10.

My first question of someone who wants to get a tattoo is why? What is the motivation? What is your heart? What are you trying to do here? So I want to attack that as a parent. And I have talked with my kids about this. When my kids are in my home, my conscience is their conscience. Seriously, when you're on your own and you're putting your own roof over your head and you're supporting yourself, then you have to make those conscience choices before the Lord, and that's between you and Him. But when you're eating my food and sleeping in my house and I'm supporting you, then as long as that's happening, my conscience goes in my house. And that means you have to live by my conscience, because I have that responsibility as the head of the home.

Now, I try to distinguish. I don't want to tell my kids “You can't do that because God said you shouldn't do it if God didn't say you shouldn't do it.” So I want to distinguish between those two and be clear. But in talking with my own children about this, I've approached it a couple of ways. One way is -- not that my kids want to have tattoos -- but if they did, we've just talked about it. Why? What's the motive? What are you trying to do? What statement are you trying to make? Let's talk about what statement it is making in the culture at large. It often is, in our culture, and you will find this, it often is attached to paganism. You don't find historically groups of Christians pursuing tattoos. It is usually, in historical terms, attached to paganism.

And I think that is what's going on in the larger culture. I'm not saying anyone who gets one, I'm saying in the larger culture. And so I think you have to look at that and you have to ask, why do I want to do that? We also approach it on a very practical level, and that is, is there a piece of jewelry you'd like to wear the rest of your life? Is there a piece of clothing you'd like to wear the rest of your life and not be able to change? Obviously not. Well, that's what you're about to do. And besides, have you seen what it looks like when you get old? Sort of, no, never mind. But you get the point. We're looking at it several different ways, but let's say my nearly adult child living in my home was contemplating it. I would insist that they work their way through Romans 14, 1 Corinthians 8 to 10, and can say to me that they could stand before Christ and say, "I'm doing this because I not only believe He allows it, but I believe it really reflects His heart in these passages." If they can say that, then so be it.

Okay? But you have to distinguish. Sheila and I have always tried, I'm sure we have not done this perfectly, my kids could tell you that, but we have always tried to distinguish between "thus saith the Lord" and "thus saith dad." Those are two different things. I don't want my kids leaving my house making different decisions about issues of conscience, but because I said "thus saith the Lord" when it wasn't the Lord, they throw out everything the Lord said. I want to make it clear this is what God says and this is how it's going to be in my house. When you leave my house, you may make different decisions in these areas where God doesn't speak, but you can't disregard what God says. Okay? Yes.

[Erica Ozain] My name is Erica Ozain, and I've been asked this by a couple of unbelievers lately. Was and is polygamy adulterous? And if so, based on your answer, a follow up question.

[Tom] Okay, let's start with: Is polygamy adultery?

[Erica] More importantly, was?

[Tom] I think it would be more accurate to say that polygamy was sin. It was never God's original intention. I'm not sure I would use the tag "adultery" because technically it is not adultery. And I don't think I would say that those, for example, who had multiple wives in the Old Testament were adulterers. I think I would say that they were sinning because it was not God's original intent. I mean, what does Jesus say in Mark 10? In fact, turn there. When He's talking about marriage and He's talking about the original design, He makes it very clear that this was never God's original design. Mark 10, you remember the question comes about divorce, verse 2. Some Pharisees came up testing Him, began to question whether it was lawful for a man to divorce his wife. He answered and said to them, "What did Moses command you?" Well, and they talk about divorce. But then Jesus makes this statement: "From the beginning of creation..." He's now going to go back and explain the original design from the beginning of creation. Verse 6:

...God made them male and female. For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother, and the two shall become one flesh; so they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.

Jesus makes it very clear that the original intent, the original design, was one man, one woman for life. The first marriage performed by God, he didn't make Adam a harem, he made Adam Eve. And so it's very clear that was the original design. Now, you go through the Old Testament because it was so much a part of the culture, it was accepted even though it was forbidden to the kings. They did it. It got them into all kinds of trouble. You see that, lived out in their lives. So it was against God's original design. So I have no problem saying it was sinful for them to do that because it was contrary to the original design as reflected in Revelation and in the creation pattern.

But it wasn't adultery because adultery specifically means that you are involved with someone who is not your spouse. Whereas in polygamy, technically, those multiple spouses are in fact your spouse. So there are two different sins, two different kinds of violation of God's law. One, adultery is clearly the violation of the marriage with a person you're not married to, sexually involved with someone who's not your spouse. Polygamy is involving yourself with multiple spouses in marriage. So they're two different kinds of sins. So I think that answers your question.

[Erica] Okay, so then the follow up question would be--

[Tom] Wait a minute, you said there was only a follow up question if I said no? Go ahead.

[Erica] The follow up question would be in the one flesh concept: How does a man, especially when God describes it as the two becoming one flesh, how does a man become one flesh with one woman and then with another woman? And conversely, if a woman was going to commit polygamy and have two husbands, which I don't see how that would work. But anyway, how does a person become one flesh with two separate people or 500 separate people?

[Tom] Well, and I think that's the point, Erica.

[Erica] How would that not be adultery?

[Tom] Well, I think it's not adultery because clearly it's never called adultery in Scripture. That label is used very specifically of sexual involvement with someone who is not your spouse. Polygamy, on the other hand, having multiple wives is identified as a separate issue. And I think clearly there is -- I mean, one flesh means two people come together. And in fact, even in a sinful relationship, there is an aspect of one flesh that occurs according to 1 Corinthians 6 and other places. You become one flesh with that person. And so there is an aspect of that that can happen even in a sinful setting. So you can become one flesh with someone with a second person, but that's against the divine design. That's against God's purpose and plan. And if it's not your spouse, it's adultery. If it's a second spouse, then it's contrary to the divine design. Okay?

Alright, one more question, then we've got to finish. Yes, sir.

[James Kerr] My name is James Kerr, and I've been a long way away from here for a long time, from Australia.

[Tom] Okay?

[James] So my question is simply this. When I left, I went to the Air Force Academy and they asked me was I a Jew or was I a Catholic or was I a Protestant. Now, I left, went through the service, all of that. And I come back now and I say, "What's happened to the Word of God being exclaimed like it says when I grew up?" I'm 77 years old, even though I look younger.

[Tom] Fifty-three. Sure.

[James] But the point is, I ran around Dallas, which is kind of like the Southern Baptist --

[Tom] -- part of the Bible Belt.

[James] Yeah, maybe the jewel in the crown, if you listen to the TV guys.

[Tom] So your question has to do with how has the simple teaching of the Scripture sort of gone away? Is that what I'm getting?

[James] Well, let me put it in the vernacular. I ran all over Southlake and looked at all the churches, showed up over here, and I've been back five times and you hadn't messed me up. Okay?

[Tom] Bless you, bro.

[James] But here's my point from your point of view. You're a man of God. Tell me what's happened to or were they old guys that listened to Spurgeon and the rest of them that said, this is it?

[Tom] I'll tell you what I think. That's a great question, James, and there's not a simple answer to it. But I would say this. I think there is one answer that sort of overarches all of them and explains a lot of different reasons. And I think it's as those like myself responsible to lead and to teach God's people stopped teaching God's people. I think when we got away from the Scripture, what you've noted and what we try to be committed to here is what does the Bible say? Let's come back to the Scripture. Let's do what, historically, the church has done. Read the Scripture. Explain the Scripture. Read the Scripture. Explain the Scripture. What does God say? That ought to be our question. When that happens, it keeps the church on God's path as it's laid out in the Word of God. But when that stops happening, then the church begins to stray. Because now you have some guy standing up and given some slick speech that's his own ideas and the church begins to drift. Initially, it stays pretty close to the truth because that's what he knows. But given enough time, you see that drift occur. Because there's not an anchor. The Scripture is no longer the anchor.

So the answer to your question is when a church or a group of churches or a community begins to drift from the clear explanation of the Word of God, that's what happens. And that's what we're seeing all around us. Okay, I got to finish. Sorry if you got another question.

[James] Okay, not another question. Just want to know can you drift into heaven?

[Tom] It's a great question, James. Great question. Alright, well, it's been fun tonight. Thank you for your questions. I hope some of that will be helpful as you think through these issues.