Q & A

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Well, tonight is a unique time and I just want to mention to you, if you’re our guest, you’ve come on a night that’s a little unusual. Normally, on Sunday evenings, we are teaching God’s Word. I’m working my way on Sunday nights through the book of Revelation and in the mornings through 1 John. So, that’s the focus of our church’s worship and study week in and week out. But tonight, we’re going to have a Q&A. And someone was reminding me beforehand that the last Q&A, and I hope this is like a precursor of some kind, but the last Q&A was the Sunday night before lockdown. Is it really been that long? I guess maybe it has. But anyway, yeah, hopefully this is not like, you know, round two. But we’re going to do it anyway, so I’m looking forward to it.

Now, let me just tell you how this works for those of you who are newer to our church. There is a mic over here and there’s a mic in this aisle. And you just come to the mic, and you start by introducing yourself, so that even if you’re well known, just say your name because there’ll be some folks here who don’t know you. So, introduce yourself and then ask your question. And try to keep the question, you know, to a question and fairly brief if you can. And if I need more information, I’ll ask you to fill it out.

Couple of minor guidelines. One of them is, this is not a chance for you to try to trip up the Pastor. So, if you were like sorting through your concordance all afternoon trying to find the most obscure reference in the Old Testament, minor prophets, this is not a good time to bring that up. Instead... And one other note on that front, is this is not a time to make a point. Now, can I just be honest with you? We all sat in classes where there was one of those people. You know, he or she wasn’t asking a real question. They were making a point. This is not the time for that either, alright? If you have a real question, then I want to hear it and want to have a chance to look at it from the Scripture with you. And so, that’s what this is about.

Now, here’s the other way that this works, and this is really important because on most questions I have more to say than I’m going to say. And so, if there’s like one person standing at this mic and there’s nobody over here and there’s nobody over here, I’m just going to keep answering that question because I’m going to assume there are no other questions. So, if you have a question, don’t do the polite Texas thing. You know, when we moved here, it was hard for us to get used to. We’d go in a store and, you know, there was a cash register, and there was a cashier up there, and then there was somebody standing like 20 feet back. Well, I thought they were waiting for somebody else. And so, I would go and, you know, do the typical California thing at the time, and get in line. And my wife is like, “Tom, that is so rude. A person is standing, waiting.” It’s like, “Well, why are they way back there?” So, don’t do that here. If you have a question, go ahead and get in line so that I know that you’re there and that’ll help me gauge sort of at what level, at what level of intensity and amount of information to communicate on the questions ahead of you.

Alright? So, with that said, if you have a question, come on up to the microphones, then we’ll get started. Alright!

Renee Bourgeois: I am curious.

Pastor Tom: Uh! You broke one of my rules already.

Renee Bourgeois: I didn’t stump you. What did I do?

Pastor Tom: You didn’t introduce yourself.

Renee Bourgeois: Oh!

Pastor Tom: I know you, but...

Renee Bourgeois: God knows me, Everybody. Renee Bourgeois. And my question is, as I read from the Old Testament to the New Testament, everyone from kings, like King David, the prophets, Paul, Barnabas, John, they’re able to speak to other nations and heads of state. It seems as if it’s seamless, especially in the New Testament where Paul is going to Rome and he’s in Crete, he’s... Everywhere he is, it seems like he is able to communicate fluently. So, I’m curious, is that the true gift of tongues that was, that’s being shown in the New Testament, where they’re able to communicate no matter - he was thinking of going to Spain or like when King David is talking to the Amalekites or whatever –

Pastor Tom: Right, no...

Renee Bourgeois: How is it they could do that?

Pastor Tom: Well, turn to Galatians 4 because I love this passage, because it reminds us of the way God had arranged the world. It really comes down to the way God had arranged the world in the first century. Now, that doesn’t... Let me, before I answer this question the way I want to answer, let me just say that clearly there were those in the New Testament era who, in the age of the apostles, who were given the capacity to speak languages they had not studied. You see that on the day of Pentecost, each man heard them in their own dialect, it says. So, clearly, that was a miraculous gift given in the time of the apostles. But really the answer to your question isn’t that. It’s broader than that and, here in Galatians 4:4... I love this verse. I quoted it this morning: “But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law...” Now, there are a lot of things that that means “when the fullness of the time came”, but what it certainly means is the way God had ordered and structured the first century world.

I mean, think about what God had done across the nations of the Mediterranean to ensure the spread of the gospel. First of all, you had the Romans. You have, you know, Augustus, Caesar Augustus, who comes on the scene, establishes the pax romana, the Roman peace. And so, you have, across the entire Mediterranean world, you have one power. So, you don’t have all of the boundaries like you have even today, but instead you had one large empire and it was open doors for those who lived there, because of that reality. In addition to that, because of the power of Rome, militarily they had established peace in that part of the world. So, no one was challenging them in the first century, the time of Christ, the time of the apostles and the early church. So, you had the sort of political scene was exactly right for the coming of the gospel, because now you have roads. The Romans, not only did they break down those borders, but they built roads.

I mean, I think you understand this, but our culture is so Roman. You understand that there were multi-level malls in first century Rome. You understand that many of the public works that we have, came out of Rome, that roads and the sort of highways that cross national boundaries all came out of Rome. It made it easy for Paul and those who traveled with him to go from one place to another because of the pax romana, because of the Roman control of the Mediterranean world.

So, that’s one part of it, but now to your question specifically. Alongside of that, you had the Greek language. You have to go back, obviously, before the time of Christ, when the Greeks were really in power, the time of Alexander, you remember, the 300s when Alexander (300s BC), when Alexander the Great spread the Greek culture and the Greek language around the world. And he conquered, it seemed, in the day. You know, that’s why he’s pictured in Daniel as an animal that has lightning speed, because that’s exactly what Alexander did. Well, not only did he conquer, but everywhere he went he took the Greek culture and the Greek language. And so, wherever you went, in the area where Alexander conquered, there in the Mediterranean world, and it spread all over that area of the world, you had the Greek language. So, you have the Greek language.

The Romans come in and, of course, they speak Latin, many of them, but guess what? Greek became the market language of the first century. Greek was to the first century what English is to the modern world. You go almost anywhere in the world, and you’ll find a lot of English speakers, or you’ll find at least people who’ve been educated, to some extent, so that they can communicate with others who speak it. It is the market language. The same thing was true with Greek in the first century. How did that happen? Well, it happened because Alexander conquered the world and died young. It happened because, overlaid with Alexander’s conquering the world, you had Augustus Caesar (Caesar Augustus) and you had the pax romana.

It was the perfect environment for Christ to come and for the gospel to spread because now you had a common language, so that the New Testament is written in what’s called koine Greek. The word koinos means common. It simply means this is the common kind of Greek. If you go back to before Christ, you had classical Greek, which is a more polished, formal Greek. But it became so common in the ancient world, that the average person spoke it. And so, you had this, what was called, common Greek or koine Greek. That’s what the New Testament is written in. It’s written in the market language, the English, if you will, of the first century and that’s why Paul could go so many places. And those who were educated had been educated in the market language. They’d been educated in all things Greek because that was the culture that had been exported by Alexander the Great. Even though the Romans were in charge, the Greeks ruled the culture.

And so, because of that, back to our verse - “when the fullness of the time came”.... Let me interpret that a little differently for you. When God had arranged everything perfectly, He sent His Son. That included politically and it included linguistically. So, you have a common language spoken across this one empire where people could communicate freely and particularly the educated masses.

Okay. Great. Yes.

Zander Leeke: Hi Pastor Tom. My name is Zander Leeke. The question I would like to ask concerns parenting style that I recently learned about called Gentle Parenting. I’ve read slightly different definitions of it online, so for the purposes of this question I would define gentle parenting as a parenting style that promotes the relationship with your child based on willingness and choices rather than demands and rules made by the parent. It teaches children to do what is good by using positivity and patience rather than fear or punishment. It teaches that to offer rewards and punishments overrides a child’s natural inclination to try, and instead teaches them to behave in certain ways for a reward or to avoid punishment. My wife and I have two kids, a boy who’s almost two, and a six-week-old baby girl. Our son recently learned how to say no, which means we often think and discuss how we should discipline them. My wife and I do not practice gentle parenting and parent in what I would consider to be an opposite manner. We believe that our children are sinners by nature and therefore their natural inclination is towards disobedience rather than obedience. The question here is we have family and friends who would consider themselves Christians and practice gentle parenting. This has caused me to think about how my wife and I would have a biblically based discussion with them about the differences that exist in our parenting styles. I believe that the approach my wife and I follow will benefit our children and is rooted in biblical principles, but I’m not sure how to articulate that to others. Is there any advice that you could provide?

Pastor Tom: Yeah. No, that’s a great question, Zander. I’ve not heard of it. Obviously, we’re a little beyond that phase with our own parenting. But let me just... Let me start with this. If you’re a young parent, there will be a steady stream of new ideas that will be coming down the pipe that say, “This is the way you should parent.” That’s what happens in every generation. So, don’t be surprised at that and don’t think, “Oh, wow, maybe everybody else got it wrong and here’s the new and best way.” There will always be the new promise. This will do it. This will deliver. And so, start there.

And then, you already answered in part, Zander, where I would go, and that is, you start with basic theology. What does the Bible teach about a child? Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child. Go through the Proverbs. Look at those references again and again that talk about that children, left to themselves, will bring their parents to shame. So, the right way to parent is not to leave a child alone. Now, that doesn’t mean you break a child, you, you know, you bully a child. But it does mean that you start with the basic understanding that that child is a depraved sinner, and he exercises that depravity in the best way he can. Can you imagine a nursery if the child really had the power to hurt another child? It would be a slaughterhouse because that’s what they would do. That’s what’s in the heart. You know, Christ said it well in Mark 7, right? It’s not that which comes from the outside that defiles a man, it’s that which comes up from the heart. Well, our children are no different than that. It’s what comes from within them that ruins everything they touch. You know, a lot of Christian parents have the idea, if I just shield my children, if I sort of pull them out of all contact with the known world, that things are going to turn out well. Well, you’ve got a basic problem with that. They have a fallen, sinful heart and they will create out of their own heart the evil that - more evil than you can imagine, because that’s what they’re prone to do.

Ultimately, they need the gospel like every other person on this planet. But in the meantime, as you’re parenting them, what approach do you take? And back to your question, I would urge you to go back to how the Lord shepherds His own people. What does He do? And if you’re interested, you can... I did a message, when I was teaching through Ephesians, on Ephesians 6:1-4 there where it deals with children’s responsibility and parents’ responsibility to children, where I developed that some - those two keywords there that were given. But essentially, you put those words together and we are to verbally instruct our children, and then we are to put before them rewards and punishments. This is exactly what God did, right? In the Torah, in the law, He said, “Here’s what I expect of you and here are rewards if you keep them and here are punishments if you don’t.” It’s with a heart of love and compassion for His people, and that’s what our heart should be as parents. But, nevertheless, we cannot improve on God’s approach that is mirrored, that is shown in the Torah, in the law that He gave His people.

It’s further built into us in the Proverbs. Study the Proverbs on parenting. In fact, there’s a helpful little book called Proverbs for Parenting, I think it’s what it’s called. It basically just collects the Proverbs that will be helpful to parents into categories that you can use as you shepherd your children. My wife and I used that and appreciated it. And then go to Ephesians 6:1-4 and see what God has to say and look at those words, study them, and you’ll see that it involves both. It involves verbal instruction, but it also involves laying before them rewards and punishments.

You know, I mean, again, a lot of parents can go over much on the discipline side without any positive reinforcement or encouragement. That’s obviously a problem. I think it was Martin Luther who said, you know, yes, you do use the rod (in the biblical terms). You do discipline physically, but you also make sure there’s an apple for reward if the child obeys. There’s that balance that you see in the Scripture.

So, that’s what I would urge you to do. And I think, in terms of gaining a biblical philosophy of parenting, there are a lot of resources out there, but the one - we were just talking about over lunch, the one that Sheila and I have found most beneficial through the years. We read it, I think once a year when our kids were young, is called Shepherding A Child’s Heart by Ted Tripp. It not only gives you the philosophy, but then he fleshes that out with, “So, what are you trying to do? What are you trying to accomplish in each stage of that child’s life?”

So, that’s where I would go. I would go to the Torah, Proverbs, then Ephesian 6:1-4. And, you know, if that doesn’t convince them, then that’s between them and the Lord. But this is the biblical model that He both laid out in Scripture and reflected in how He shepherded His own people.

Okay.

Will Hader: Hey Pastor Tom. My name is Will Hader and I want to say thank you for the new song.

Pastor Tom: Thank you!

Will Hader: It was incredible and really ministered to me. But I have a question about morbid introspectionism, and the way that you can lead someone out of that, and then any resources that you have for that.

Pastor Tom: Yeah, first of all, thank you Will. First of all, just to make sure that everybody knows what we’re talking about, there is a legitimate kind of self-examination. You know, 2 Corinthians 13:5 says we are to examine ourselves to see if we’re in the faith. In other places, we’re told to, you know, inspect our hearts and see what’s coming from our hearts and all those things. So, there is a place for a certain moderated degree of introspection. What Will is asking about is morbid introspection, that is, when do you know if you’ve gone too far?

Well, I think the Puritans had it right when they said for every look at self, we should take ten looks at Christ. That’s a great model and I think helping people get outside of themselves. Listen, if you spend all of your time looking and inspecting your own spiritual naval, if all you do is think about you, then you’re violating the basic Scripture in two ways. One, you’re not loving God. And two, you’re not loving others. In a very real sense, too much introspection is an inside-out form of pride. It’s becoming obsessed with self. It’s just a different expression. You know, real humility isn’t spent, you know, looking at myself all the time. Real humility is serving others. You know, 1 Peter 5. He says, “Put on, gird on the towel of a slave and serve other people. Serve other Christians.”

So, that’s my chief encouragement to people is, first of all, spend your time in the Scriptures, because that will help balance your thinking. There is introspection in the Psalms, but there are also Psalms that are gloriously outside of me that are looking at God. And so, if you really embrace the Scriptures, you get that balance. Whereas, if you try to sort of navigate it on your own, you’re going to fall off one way or the other typically. So, I love - that’s why you hear me praying the Scriptures, even in our prayers. I think the best thing you can do is pray your way through the Scripture. Just turn what you learn from that Scripture into prayer. So, that means what you’re doing at every turn is the Scripture itself is balancing your view of self and your view of God.

But I think the big picture is... If somebody... If you believe that someone is morbidly introspective, if they’re just gone too far in this whole thing of looking at their own soul and, unfortunately, some of the Puritans were like that. Not all of them. Some of them were very balanced but there are some that I feel that’s true of. And I would just say, just get back to the Scripture and work your way through it and let its balanced thinking balance you. Like I said, if you work through the Psalms, you’re going to find those but you’re also going to find so many that are so far outside of yourself and that are looking at God and looking at serving others. And so, I just think the Scripture is the solution to so much of this.

Working our way through passages, you know, like this morning and other passages where we’re talking about, “Yes, okay, you sin. Yes, you hate that sin. Yes, you ought to hate that sin. But look at Christ. Look at our High Priest. Look at His intercession. Look at His work of propitiation. Put your mind and heart there.” That’s what the Scripture does, is it provides that beautiful balance.

I don’t know if - does that answer your question?

Will Hader: Yes, yes. Thank you.

Pastor Tom: Okay, great! Thank you!

Joshua Allen: Hey, Pastor Tom. My name is Joshua Allen. And last summer when you introduced your Trending Vs. Truth series, you gave a bunch of topics you would go over, like gender, social justice. One of them was Christian nationalism. However, you did not devote a full sermon to that topic and I’m very curious what you were going to talk about had you done that.

Pastor Tom: Well, just so... Thank you, Joshua. Thanks for asking that. And let me just say that it wasn’t because I wimped out. I just want you to know that. The truth is, you’ll remember, I got sick. I got pneumonia and so I’d laid out the summer and I knew when I was going to do what and then I wanted to start back in or start in our study of 1 John. So, unfortunately, I lost a week, and something had to go. And I hated to cut it. In fact, what my thought was, I might do it maybe this coming 4th of July. We’ll see. So, let me give you a brief answer.

First of all, let me say what Christian nationalism is not, because I think, unfortunately, there are people too far on both sides. Christian nationalism is not being grateful for the country in which we live. Christian nationalism is not praying for its leaders. It’s not caring about, you know, who you vote for and who wins a given election. That’s not Christian nationalism. All of those things, generations before us have done and devoted Christians, who were balanced in their perspectives, do.

Christian nationalism, in my own way of thinking, is when you go beyond that and you begin to, for example, take passages of Scripture that, in their context, clearly and primarily have to do with Israel and the people God chose (either Israel or even His New Testament people) and you make those about your country. You know, there’s been a lot of that. Even I grew up, you know, in the whole fervor of the bicentennial. And, you know, we were singing lots of patriotic songs in church and all of those things. There was a fervor about that, but it’s celebrated as if... You know, when you read texts like, “Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord”, people would go, “Well, that’s America!” Well, no, that’s not America. You know, look around us our, you know, that’s not who we are.

And even if you go back to the founding of the nation... In fact, let me encourage you. If you’re interested in this, there’s a great book written by a professor at the Masters Seminary, a man named Greg Frazier. It’s called Faith of the Founding Fathers, in which he goes back and documents the real beliefs of our founding fathers. Spoiler alert: they were not evangelical Christians for the most part. What he does is he says, you know, the truest expression of what a man believes is in his private correspondence, not in his public statements. I mean, we’ve heard all of our politicians and leaders talk about how much they love God, and they’ll throw in a verse and throw in a reference to Jesus. That is not the measure of whether or not they’re truly believers. Instead, what he does is look at their private correspondence. And what you discover from their private correspondence is that... He calls them, and I think this is a great title... He calls them “theistic rationalists”. In other words, they were not primarily theists. They were primarily rationalists who whitewashed their rationalism with theism. And I think that’s exactly right for many of them. Not saying for everyone but for many of them. So, you have to start with that is... And I know I may be sending a wrecking ball through somebody’s, you know, ideas, but I’m just saying go read the book and you’ll see the men in their own words saying what they believe. And what they believe is not what you and I believe. So, I think that’s where it kind of gets off the rails is when we think that our nation is - has evangelical roots.

Now, don’t misunderstand me. There are some evangelical roots and we’re grateful for them. Obviously, the Puritans came over, the Pilgrims came over into the Massachusetts Bay Colony. But when you look at the US, you really see these two streams, right? You see the two founding colonies, Jamestown and the Plymouth Colony, you see them founded for different reasons and going different directions. And we still see those today. In one case, there is the path of those committed to the truth and a desire to know the truth and on the other there’s commercialism, the desire to take advantage of all of the great resources in this country for commercial good. And you see that from the beginning. So, I just think you have to avoid the idea that we are - that if only we could get back to what we were, we would be an evangelical Christian nation. The truth is, there were always and are today more evangelical Christians in America than there are in most countries in the world. But that doesn’t mean that the founding leaders were evangelical Christians who believed what we believe.

So, I think that’s what you just have to avoid, this idea that, you know, that America is God’s nation, and He’s going to preserve it at all costs because this is who we are. The truth is we are becoming increasingly... We were a nation influenced by Judeo-Christian values and ideas, but we are increasingly becoming thoroughly pagan. And we’re in Romans 1 and we just see that unfolding before our eyes. The wrath of abandonment as God turns our nation over to those things. God has no obligation to America.

Now, I love my country. I pray. I pray.... Here’s a way to pray: “God, there are more Christians in this - true Christians in this nation than there are in many nations around the world. Won’t You, for their sake, preserve our land?” Pray for our leaders. Pray for their salvation. Pray that they would come to fear the Lord, that they would make wise decisions at local, state, and national levels.

But don’t think that our nation is a Christian nation or that God owes us a future. Neither of those is true. I suspect if any of us could live long enough, we’d find our nation on the dustbin of history just like every other nation or almost every other nation. So, we just need to be realistic about that. Let’s love our nation. Let’s pray for it. Let’s be thankful for what we enjoy. Let’s do what we can to preserve our freedoms. But let’s not put our hope here. I love the way the writer of Hebrews puts it, “We have an unshakable kingdom”. And that’s not America; that’s the kingdom of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Deon Cullum: Hi Pastor Tom. My name is Deon.

Pastor Tom: Hi Deon.

Deon Cullum: Nice to see you. My question is kind of twofold, and it’s dealing with the issue of marriage. I think for, you know, a lot of us in 128, I’m not speaking for 128 as a whole, but I know that a lot of us desire to be married one day. And my question is, like I said, it’s twofold. One, how does one fight off discontentment when they see that they’ve been praying about marriage for a while, but it’s not really coming through to fruition in their own timeline? But also, how do we keep ourselves from idolizing marriage as a whole because I think for some of us, we may, you know, we may desire it so much where we think about it constantly. We may get into a habit of, when we meet someone, our minds go into overdrive like, could this be the one? Is this not the one? So on and so forth. So, I’m just curious about those two aspects of how does one essentially protect their heart as they’re, you know, waiting for marriage if it’s the Lord’s will, so to speak?

Pastor Tom: No, that’s a great question, Deon. It’s a hard one. I mean, just to be honest with you, it’s hard. But let me just see if I can sort of fill that out a little bit. I think, first of all, you have to come back to the biblical understanding. When you go to the creation, to the created order, God determined that it was not good for a man to be alone, and therefore He said I will make a helper suitable to him. So, God’s design for the loneliness that we experience was companionship and specifically the companionship of marriage. God determined that was good. So, we have to start by understanding that that is a good thing. We live in a culture that doesn’t see that as a good thing for lots of reasons. Sometimes just because of marriage as a whole, sometimes because of an immaturity that says “I kind of enjoy my freedom” or, you know, whatever. But, in the end, you have to start with a biblical mindset. What does God say about marriage? And so, you go back to the created order. You go back to what God says about that.

Now, you overlay that with 1 Corinthians 7. In 1 Corinthians 7, you clearly have those who are gifted for singleness and those who are gifted for marriage. So, in other words, God has specifically equipped some people for singleness. Some of them know that and are happy with that, others may want to be married but God, in His providence, never allows that to come to fruition. And that means God will enable them to live in that single state in a way that honors Him. Okay?

But there’s nothing wrong with desiring what God has said is a good gift. What you can’t do is demand it of God. That’s where you cross the line. There’s nothing wrong with saying and praying. I did this when I was young: “Lord, you’ve said that this is a good thing. And so, I believe that. And so, I do desire this. I want this, but I don’t want anything in my life more than I want You and obeying You.” And that’s the key, you know. Can you hold it with a loose hand? Can you honestly say to the Lord, “Lord, this is what I desire. I’m praying that You’ll provide it, and I’m going to take steps to move that direction. But I’m not going to demand this of You. And I will be happy my whole life if You don’t have marriage for me. You will give me the grace to live as Jesus lived, as Paul lived, and to serve You and to love others.”? As he says in 1 Corinthians 7, to devote myself to the ministry of the kingdom, the kingdom purposes. So, I think it’s that balance.

Now, let me just say to those of you who are young men here, or perhaps older men, and who desire to be married. You’re in a little easier place than some of the women because in our culture, typically, women don’t initiate that contact and so they have to wait for that contact. So, if you’re a young man and you have the desire to pursue marriage, then don’t be afraid to ask a girl out, you know. I mean, we live in a culture where, like, you know, a date is like we’re betrothed. You know, that’s not true, alright? There’s nothing wrong with having friends of the opposite sex with the intention of seeing if, maybe, we can be lifelong companions. Maybe we can develop a friendship that becomes a lifelong companionship, and maybe it doesn’t happen, and so that’s okay.

I mean, I, you know, I’m about to embarrass myself and probably my wife. But when I was in college, this was not the attitude. So, you know, I’m not like God’s gift to women, but I dated all the time. I mean, sometimes I would have several dates of different girls on the same weekend because I wanted to be married and I wanted to meet somebody that would be the right fit. And so, you can’t - it’s that delicate balance of saying, “Lord, I am content if that’s what You choose. I really do have an open hand. At the same time, I don’t believe You have gifted me for singleness and, therefore, I’m going to take reasonable steps to pursue Your good gift. And direct me in Your providence.” You know, that’s a great prayer. “Lord, give me wisdom. Direct me in Your providence. But in the end, don’t let me idolize marriage and where I will hold a grudge against You, God, if you don’t allow this in my life. No, I’ll love You. I’ll serve You. I’ll pour myself into whatever life You give me. But You have said this is good. Help me to be wise in pursuing it.” Does that make sense?

Deon Cullum: Yeah. Thank you so much.

Albert Yang: Hello Pastor Tom. My name is Albert Yang. I’m a new member and if my question is too simple, hopefully no one’s going to stone me for this. I thought I knew the Bible until I came to this church. I’m very, very humbled. Thank you for taking these questions. Basically, comes down to the questions regarding the days of creation. I tell my kids whatever the church tells you, I agree with that.

Pastor Tom: Umm.

Albert Yang: So, they’re not here, so I don’t want to have any conflict there. So...

Pastor Tom: Let’s, before you finish your question, one step back from that. You tell them except what the church teaches, if you can look in your Bible and that’s what it clearly says.

Albert Yang: Amen!

Pastor Tom: Alright, go ahead.

Albert Yang: Thank you, Sir. But basically, I heard that in the Hebrew text the days can be interpreted as a rotation of the earth (one day) or a period. So... And then also I heard sometimes we say, “We’re not sure”. We tell our kids, “We’ll find out in heaven.” I just want to see how I should tell my kids and how I should interpret this in my own head. And also, because God is outside of time and space, as time is not relevant, so I see maybe because we had such a long debate with the evolutionist that we don’t want to even think about budging at all, but maybe we could maybe she said you could... We believe in our church this, but sometimes could be interpreted as a period. And...

Pastor Tom: Sure. Yeah, I think I get where you’re coming from with your question. And what I would encourage you... Again, you’re right. We start with, what does the Bible say? That’s always the right question. And we approach the Bible... I was thinking about this earlier today, actually. We approach the Bible, sometimes we say literally. That’s a good word, but I think it can be misunderstood as if there’re not figures of speech. If there’re - you know, all those things which, of course, there are. What we really mean when we say literally is we mean normally, the way you would interpret and approach any other piece of literature.

So, when we come to the early chapters of Genesis, we interpret them as we would that genre, that kind of literature. Read... Let’s take Genesis 1 and 2 aside. Let’s even take Genesis 1, 2, and 3 aside for a moment. How would you read and interpret, starting in Genesis 4 through Genesis 50? You would take that as historical narrative. Why? Because that’s - all the pointers are there for historical narrative, both in English and in Hebrew. And so, it is not normal hermeneutics to take the first several chapters and lop them off and say they look like historical narrative. They look like the rest of the book. They look like they’re describing 6 literal days. But that must not be what it means. Okay, so first of all, it violates a basic hermeneutic.

But let’s go to the question specifically in terms of the days. That... The Hebrew word is yom. When it is used in the plural or with an ordinal number, it never means ages; it never means indefinite periods of time. It’s used constantly throughout the Old Testament, and it never means that in any other context. What I would encourage you to do... There are a number of arguments that we would lay out biblically for why we believe those are 6, 24-hour, literal days.

What I would encourage you to do is I did a series a couple years ago on the distinctives of the church. And that’s one of them. We believe in literal, 6-day creation. Why? It’s not because of anything outside the Scripture. But I laid out a series of biblical arguments for that. So, I would just encourage you to go, work through that, and I think it will help you sort through that issue as you deal with this issue. There’s also an institution nearby that several folks in our church are part of called the Institute for Creation Research, here in Dallas. They put out a lot of great materials that will help you address what appear to be there, and there are only apparent discrepancies between what can be observed scientifically and what the Bible teaches.

But in the end, what trumps what? And the answer is, the Bible trumps everything else. And so, what does God say? He’s the only One who was there. And so, we have to look at what He said, and we have to interpret it in a normal way, the way we’d interpret any other piece of literature. That’s how Jesus, by the way, interpreted it, right? When you see how He references the first three chapters of Genesis, that’s how He treats them.

So, go back and, again, there’re a series of arguments. I think there were seven or eight arguments I laid out in that message. So, go back and listen to that. And then, if you still want to read some more, come see me. I’ll get you some good resources, alright?

Albert Yang: Yes, thank you. Just one small thing is, is I’m trying to focus with my kids on that God created everything, but the how is also great, but I’m trying to focus on God is the main author. So...

Pastor Tom: Yeah, no, you’re absolutely right. But it comes back to how. If God says how... If He didn’t say how, all we’d be talking about is that God is the Creator, but He said how. Okay? So, we have to focus there as well. So, I just encourage you to go listen and, again, let the Scripture speak. Let God be true and every man a liar. Okay?

Albert Yang: Thank you very much.

Pastor Tom: Yes, Sir.

Wyatt Segovia: Hello, Pastor Tom. My name is Wyatt Segovia. And...

Pastor Tom: I’m sorry, I didn’t catch that.

Wyatt Segovia: Wyatt Segovia.

Pastor Tom: Wyatt, ok.

Wyatt Segovia: My question kind of relates to creation. Since God is done with creation, how then does Jesus create literal, like food, and rearrange, and heal people if He’s done creating, if He also took dust and created man in Genesis?

Pastor Tom: Sure. You’re talking about during the ministry of Christ?

Wyatt Segovia: Yes.

Pastor Tom: Yeah. What you have with Christ is, you know, we tend to think of miracles as something that is completely contrary to anything God has ever done. The truth is, I like the way one person described it, a miracle... Well, let me back up and say this. God is doing these kinds of things every day through providence. Okay? But a miracle is when God pulls His hand out of the glove, and you see His hand doing it. That’s really what a miracle is.

Let’s take, for example, Jesus turning water into wine. I mean, that’s amazing. You read that miracle and Jesus shortcuts the entire secondary processes that normally take the water that falls out of the sky, goes into the ground, is absorbed by the roots of the vine, absorbed up through the plant, and then you have that water coming into the grapes. And eventually you have the fruit of the vine from that water that fell from the sky. That’s amazing when you really study that process but that’s God’s hand in the glove. You don’t see His hand as obviously. What you see in the ministry of Jesus is His pulling His hand out of the glove and saying, “Boom, there’s water turned into wine.” Okay?

So, it’s the same power that He uses every day. You know, John 1 talks about the fact that all things were made by Him. Without Him nothing was made that was made (John 1:3). Hebrews 1 makes the same point. Colossians 1 makes the same point. But Colossians adds that through Him, through His power, all things consist or, as another writer puts it, all things hold together. And so, He manages it all.

Normally, He uses what we would call secondary causes. You know, we talk about God providing food for all the animals. How does He do that? Does He take His hand out of the glove and do it immediately? No, He uses ordinary providence. In fact, the confessions, both the Westminster Confession and the Baptist Confession, say that God does freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass, yet He does so in such a way that He doesn’t undo secondary causes. So, in other words, He set the meteorological cycle in place whereby water is picked up from the oceans, through evaporation and fresh water. And it’s... The salt is not picked up. That fresh water comes then over the land, the clouds are laden with the water, it drops on the ground, it goes into the ground, it falls into the roots, the roots absorb it up through, and it turns into grape juice inside that grape. That’s God’s secondary cause. So, all you have with miracles is His doing it directly in a way that’s obvious and visible.

Same thing with healing. Okay? Who heals your body? Well, God uses secondary causes. He may use medicine. He may use the immune system He created in your body that allows your body to heal. But God is the One who did that, who created that. The only reason you ever get better from anything is because God made it so. And He uses all those systems. But if He wants to, and this is what He did in the ministry of Jesus, He can take His hand out of the glove and boom, you’re healed.

And so, it’s... I think you have to think about it a little differently. It’s not sort of a total turning everything on its head. It’s the hand out of the glove of what He does all the time. Okay?

Wyatt Segovia: Yes. Thank you.

Pastor Tom: Yeah. Yes, Sir.

Nate Daniels: Hello, I’m Nate Daniels. And my question is, why did Jesus not die an eternal death like unbelievers will? And I’m not talking about the idea that Christ dies multiple times for our sins, but...

Pastor Tom: Yeah, you’re saying, how could the hours on the cross be enough?

Nate Daniels: Yes, why did Christ not receive eternal punishment for our sins?

Pastor Tom: Yeah, and the answer to that is because of who He was. He is an eternal person. You know, He had to be man so that He could suffer in our place. He had to be one of us. He had to be made like us, Hebrews 2:17 says, so that He could be our propitiation. But only the infinite God could suffer the infinite punishment the sins of all His people deserved in those hours on the cross. So, it’s related to the nature of His person. He’s both fully human, so He could stand in our place, and He’s also the God-man. And so, He could endure the infinite punishment that we deserve. Okay? So, it’s a matter of His capacity as the God-man to absorb the wrath that all His people deserved.

I mean, you see it, right? He was separated, as we deserve to be separated for eternity. He was separated during those hours on the cross. So, it’s… In His case, it’s not about length of time; it’s about the nature of His person. Because He is an infinite being, He’s able to absorb that infinite punishment. Okay? So, I think you have to think of it like that in terms of His capacity related to the nature, unique nature, of His person.

Also think of it this way. Why do we have to suffer? And I’m talking about we as human beings. Why does a human being, who doesn’t believe, have to suffer in hell forever for a lifespan of 80 years of rebellion? That seems unfair, right? Well, think about this. We’re going to study it in Revelation. What does it say later in Revelation? Let the filthy be filthy still. People in hell are not going to suddenly become good. They’re going to spend eternity with a hateful, rebellious heart that would strike at God if they were able to do it. And so, what are they doing? Throughout eternity, they’re just accumulating more punishment. It never is paid. Jesus paid it all in His solitary death.

Jared Hiller: My name is Jared Hiller, and I had a question after that parenting question. I have a friend of mine, who I was raised in church with, and the father was really good about teaching the holiness of God, but never like the mercy or love of Christ. And so, she’s not Christian, obviously, now. And I’m wondering when I spend time with this person and those gospel conversations come up, I’m wondering, how do I approach that since she got one part, okay, but not the other part.

Pastor Tom: Yeah, I understand. She has distorted view of God because of her earthly father. And that’s not uncommon. I mean many of you, if I were to ask for a show of hands, I think there are many people in this room who would say my earthly father, perhaps there were good things about him, but I didn’t get a full orb picture of the nature of God from my earthly father. And that’s sad. And certainly, as Christian fathers, my desire and I know many of you here, that’s your desire is to reflect that character of God.

But it’s not necessary. You know, you look at Ezekiel 18 and there you have the story of several generations and there can be a wicked parent who has a righteous child. God, in His grace, interrupts the cycle and He interposes His grace into a person. So, my response to you would be just share the full expression of the gospel. Yes, the holiness of God, but also the grace of God, the love of God that motivated Him to send His Son - those things, the full gospel that the Scriptures teach. And that will be the balance she needs. And in the end, you’re not going to convince her over what she saw. It will be the power of the gospel itself. “For I am not ashamed of the gospel (Romans 1), for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believe...” James 1 - I love the way James 1 puts it. Look at James 1:18: “In the exercise of His [God’s] will He brought us forth [literally, ‘He birthed us’, talking about the new birth] by the word of truth...” And so, that’s the way it’s going to happen.

So, you just come back to the basic truths of the gospel that show that amazing balance between God’s holiness and His love and grace shown to us in Christ. And pray the Lord uses that, that it bears fruit in her life.

Jared Hiller: Thank you. I appreciate that.

Pastor Tom: Yes, and I think, let’s see, let’s for now, let’s keep just the three we’ve got standing because I don’t know how long it’s going to take, alright?

Christine Holcomb: Hi, my name is Christine Holcomb. We’ve been coming about a year. Just want to say thank you for your excellent biblical teaching.

Pastor Tom: Aww, thank you.

Christine Holcomb: It’s been a blessing. We have three small children, and they ask all kinds of questions, as little children do. And my 5-year-old asked me. She stumped me and she said, “Well, if God knows everything, why did He even create the devil? Why did He allow the fall to happen?”

Pastor Tom: It’s a great and profound theological question from your five-year-old. Let me just say.

Christine Holcomb: The things that come out of her mouth.

Pastor Tom: Yeah, no, that’s... And it’s the right question to ask. The good news is, Scripture doesn’t - while it doesn’t give us the - everything we’d like to know, it tells us enough so that we know. You know, Deuteronomy 29:29 says, ”The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law.” So, God has told us everything we need to know in His Word. And He has touched on that very reality. And it’s true. I mean, think about this. God is omniscient. God knew and knows all things. He knows all possibilities. There are a couple of texts, when I taught through the omniscience of God, there are a couple of texts in the Scripture that say, you know, where God says... He answers a hypothetical question: if so and so goes here, will they win in battle? And the Lord responds, “No, they won’t.” Okay, so He knows. It didn’t happen, but He knows what will happen even in the hypothetical situation. So, that means before He created anything, He knew what would happen.

So, let’s come back to God’s ultimate purpose. God’s ultimate purpose is to express His own glory. You know, in Ephesians - look at Ephesians 1. You have here, in this amazing hymn of praise that begins in Ephesians 1:3, “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ...” Then you have the part the Father played in the plan of redemption, which was election. That’s not the sole part, but it’s the part that’s focused on here. Then you have the Son’s accomplishment of it, beginning in verse 7, “In Him we have redemption through His blood...” And then you have the Spirit’s role, beginning in verse 13. So, you have here the Trinity celebrated for the great plan of redemption. And guess how each one of those stanzas ends, as he talks about why the Father chose us in eternity past, why the Son came and accomplished our redemption, why the Spirit comes and seals us into the day of our final redemption? Why? Every one of those ends with the same refrain. Look at verse 6: “to the praise of the glory of His grace...” Look at verse 12: “...to the praise of His glory.” And look at verse 14: “...to the praise of His glory.” In other words, the reason God has done everything He’s done, is ultimately the exaltation of His great name.

Now, there are things about God that cannot be revealed apart from creation. It can’t be known to intelligent beings. The angels wouldn’t have even known them, apart from His creating mankind. And that is His grace and even His anger and wrath against sin. Romans 9, you know, as Paul unfolds it, and I would encourage you to go listen. You, obviously, have just come recently. You missed all of Romans. So, go –

Christine Holcomb: I’ll do that.

Pastor Tom: You don’t have to go listen to it all, okay? But go back and listen to Romans 9 because in Romans 9, particularly beginning in verse 22, listen to what Paul writes, “What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory...” What he’s saying is God had a plan. God had a plan to put His mercy and grace on display, and to do that requires the backdrop of human sin.

Now, what you learn in Romans 9 is that God is not responsible for human sin. In other words, God didn’t cause people to sin. He didn’t make people sinners. Remember, He made Satan as one of the angelic beings. According to Ezekiel 28, he was the “cherub who covers”. He was in the Garden of Eden. He was clothed with all kinds of precious stones. He was an amazing creature whose heart was lifted up with pride. That’s where evil came from. It was a spontaneous combustion in the heart of who was really the Prime Minister of heaven. And that’s where sin came from. God created Adam and Eve as innocent, as loving Him, walking with Him. And they chose to follow Satan. God knew those things would happen and He allowed it for His own glory, but God didn’t cause them to happen.

And I think that’s the differentiation you have to make with your kids is, Satan made that sinful choice. Adam and Eve made the sinful choice they made. God knew it would happen. He allowed it. Why? To redeem a people for His Son. It’s back to the theme of the Bible. God is redeeming a people by His Son, for His Son, to His own glory. That’s what it’s all about and, in so doing, He’s putting His glory on display, both on vessels of mercy and even those who sin and rebel against God and get what they deserve at the hand of His justice. But nobody’s treated unfairly and God didn’t make anybody sin. Okay?

But go listen to Romans 9 and I think it’ll flesh it out a lot more.

Christine Holcomb: Thank you.

Pastor Tom: Alright, you’re welcome. Yes.

Christine Cooper: Pastor Tom, I’m Christine Cooper, another Christine, and I serve in the College Ministry here at our church. And a question came up in our small group recently about how we see levels of rewards for those who go to heaven. And the question is, do we know biblically if there are levels of judgment for those who go to hell? The verse that I could think of was from the gospels, where Jesus talks about how the Pharisees will receive greater condemnation, but I wasn’t sure beyond that.

Pastor Tom: No, that’s a good place to go. First of all, let me just briefly comment on the different levels of reward. Question is: what are our rewards in heaven? You ever thought about that? What is the reward going to be? And I think, as you look at the gospels particularly, and you watch that flesh out, it seems to be - and 1 Corinthians - it seems to be two things. One is the praise of our Lord. I love that line in 1 Corinthians 4 where he says, “...but wait until the Lord comes who will both bring to light the things hidden in the darkness and disclose the motives of men’s hearts; and then each man’s praise will come to him from God [that he deserves].” And so, there is the praise of our Lord. Imagine that!

But beyond that, there seems to be also a capacity for service. You have the parable where Jesus talks about the distribution and their future ability and capacities are based on how they invest the capacities they’re given here. And so, those seem to be the two chief expressions of our rewards in heaven: the praise of our Lord and a greater capacity to serve Him there.

But back to your - the heart of your question, and that is, what about unbelievers in hell? Yes, I think you quoted the right passage. I mean, Jesus is very clear when He talks to the cities in which He did His miracles. You know, “Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida!”, and so forth. “Nevertheless I say to you that it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for you [because of what you’ve had, because of the opportunity you’ve had. I’ve been here. The Son of God has walked among you].” And so, clearly, there is that expression.

You see it in some of the expressions used of Judas as well, that he is going to endure the worst at God’s hand. And then, I think one of the clearest expressions you have of it is in Revelation. We’ll get there when we get to the Great White Throne of judgment, which comes at the end of the 1000-year reign of Christ, when all the unbelieving dead are resurrected. And you have - you read this in Revelation 20? It said, “And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.”

There is a clear indication there, that in the... It’s not to say there are literal books in heaven. It’s to say, written on the omniscience of God, there is every single careless word, every single thought, every single act and those who do not embrace His Son will be justly judged based, not on their recollection of their sin, but God’s. And that’s the sobering thought and that chases us to the gospel.

But, yes, there does absolutely seem to be degrees of reward in heaven and degrees of punishment in hell based on not necessarily even the kind of sin. You know, we tend to think of, “Well, pride is bad, but it’s not nearly as bad as murder.” It’s not based on that. It’s rather based on opportunity. It’s based on the heart, the level of rebellion. It’s based on those sorts of things, but clearly the deeds factor into a person’s judgment. Okay?

Alright, yeah.

Judah Clary: Hello, my name is Judah Clary. My question has to do with, recently, I was listening to a coworker, and he said he had issues about being confident that the current translations of the Bible we have today are accurate, relative to the old ones. And I wanted to take that and push it back a little bit further and say - so, like we have stuff like the Dead Sea Scrolls and manuscripts, but we have stuff here today. It’s very unlikely we have original manuscripts. If we do –

Pastor Tom: We don’t have original manuscripts.

Judah Clary: So, it probably goes a bit down here. But how can we be sure that the original manuscripts or the current manuscripts and versions we have are an accurate representation of what’s in the manuscripts, and also when information was passed on, say orally or written?

Pastor Tom: Yeah, that’s a good question. Let me answer it in two ways. First of all, for a really more thorough answer, I recommend two resources. The first is a book. It’s written by Michael Krueger. It’s called The Canon of Scripture. And it’s very helpful to talk about how early on, what we call the Canon, was shaped and formed - very early to when it when the documents were written. The other is a message, a series of messages, I did and or you can get the book that I’ve just come out with called Jesus’ High View of Scripture where I walk through Matthew 5:17-20, where you get Jesus’ view of Scripture and Jesus affirms the Scripture that He had. And I talk about the manuscripts. They didn’t have the originals in His time either and yet He affirms it as the Word of God and its preservation. So, that book or the messages, if you’d prefer, will layout an argument. It’ll give you the background of the manuscripts, how we got where we are, and the manuscripts that we have.

But in the end, it comes down to this. The people who say, “I just don’t trust the Bible because we don’t have the original manuscripts”, my first question to them is: do you study any ancient documents? Do you believe Aristotle wrote what Aristotle wrote? I have, on my shelf at home, the writings of Aristotle. Do you believe he wrote that? What about Homer? You know, what about those ancient documents? Do you believe those? Because if you do, you’re being utterly inconsistent because the truth is, the volume of manuscript evidence we have for the Scripture and the closeness of the manuscripts we possess to the date of the original writing, both of those overwhelm every other ancient document. And so, it is a disingenuous argument by most people because they don’t throw out those other things. It’s a bias against the Scripture. So, it comes down to this, in my mind, is our Lord affirmed the Old Testament clearly. Study Matthew 5. Get the book.

He also pre-authenticated the New Testament by choosing the men who would write it. And then, you put together the manuscript evidence, the sheer volume and the closeness in proximity to the ones we have to when they were written, and it’s an open and shut case for the Scripture. Alright? Thanks, Judah.

I think we’re going to need to end, okay? If you got to follow up, see me afterwards, alright? I need to - we need to close and sing and let you people go. Thank you. Great questions tonight. I hope some of that was helpful but let me pray for us and then Seth will come and lead us in a closing song.

Father, thank You for the fact that Your Word speaks so clearly and definitively on so many of these matters that we talked about tonight. And Lord, thank You that even when Your Word doesn’t, it gives us a grid. It gives us an ability to understand and to respond appropriately to the issues that come up in our lives. Lord, help us as Your people to always come first and foremost to the question, what does the Bible say? May our confidence be in the Scripture because You have endowed it with Your own power, and our Lord affirmed it as Your eternal words, the very words that You have spoken. Lord, we thank You for the gift You’ve given us in the Scripture. And we thank You in Jesus’ name, Amen!